Category Archives: United States of America

BP Begins Static Kill of Well: Stage Two

I have occasionally offered links to a BP site but not really given them the primary spot on anything as long as their oil was continuing to spew ever more death into the Gulf of Mexico. However, they now claim that they have initiated static kill and are also trying to remain engaged in clean-up and recovery. So I thought this was the time after many other posts to allow them the principal and premiere position to describe their situation and operations. Here is that link:  http://bp.concerts.com/gom/houma_command_center_update_073110.htm

In addition to all that we have to address from this spill and ongoing challenges we have to face the fact the human and political challenges are ongoing and very serious as well. There is no limit to the  amount of confusion and conflict which can bedevil our efforts to find the right way forward.  Already we see the Senate shying away from the onerous aspects of the process we must undergo to find resolution: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40597.html

I am regarding all these more than one hundred days of activity as the first phase. Today we enter the second phase. It will be interesting to see how ell we can handle it in this world of flawed and busy people working in flawed and busy systems. But for now we can hope for the best.

Six Young People Die in Louisiana’s Red River

It appears that six young people from two families have drowned in the Red River today. None of the young people could swim and they were on a sand bar in a natural river recreating. Apparently one of the drowning youth, a fourteen year old, was rescued. This was in North Louisiana.  The drowned  teens were all apparently both black and African-Americans. One young person who was not of such a description and may or may not have participated in the successful rescue of the one that did survive reported losing another victim he was attempting to rescue from beneath the waters. Yahoo News has the basic story on video and in text: http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/21202902. I wonder how many ways issues of race affect this story and are  important to policy but are not being considered. The good probability that blacks in the age of Obama found directives about anything distasteful and not worth their time is pretty high. Not learning to swim and endangering themselves and other have a racial element.

In addition to this, I saw a report in which a young woman was injured severely, and may still die, from being dropped one hundred feet on to the ground instead of released on to a net from a similar distance. The girl’s father was a doctor.  He claims she was dead when he got to her. There is a story with some illustrations at this site: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/03/earlyshow/main6738986.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentAux

Here it seems to me one has to at least consider some other things as upsetting as suggesting that Black Teen culture may have reached all the way to rural Louisiana to help kill those six kids. A culture of short-cuts may have squeezed the life out of these black Americans, if in fact all were black and even if only one family was black. Here in the park I would want to consider cold-blooded murder as a possibility. I would want to examine all the reasons why it might have happened. Presumably it is an act of negligence or recklessness in a social context. But the act itself was a near execution. I think cold-blooded murder and thrill-killing deserve to be considered.

This blog is written by someone who is moving a little further from the stream and flow of daily American life with each passing year. But if we are reaching appoint where we cannot ask ugly questions that the ugly facts may suggest in ugly situations then we truly are dooming ourselves in yet another way.

Looking at the BP Macondo Oil Leak Today

Here is a list of observations and factoids related to the BP oil leak as of right now. This is kind of quick and slap dash but here they are for your consideration:

1. Depending how you measure the same coastline can be measure as 1,000 miles long or 500,ooo miles long. However, at least 500 miles of Gulf of Mexico coastline have been at least partly oiled.

2. At least 3,500 wild animals have been documented as killed by the oil leak.

3. Eleven men lost their lives in the initial explosion and at least two others have died in related post explosion events.

4. Rescued animals have still been lost to local areas in order to save their lives.

5. Many thousands of fishermen, shrimpers, oyster farmers, crabbers and sports guides have lost work.

6. Many seaside hotels and resorts have lost business.

7. Seafood processors, brokers, shippers and restaurants have lost business.

8. Suppliers of sport fishing and hospitality and travel industries have lost business.

9.  The oil and gas industry in the Gulf of Mexico has lost money due to the moratorium and have caused workers to lose paychecks.

10. Pollution assessment and clean-up are still not completely designed and defined for completion.

11. There are some good effects of all this tough questioning and thinking going on that are hard to assess just yet.

12. My blog is back to normal almost.

American Republicanism within the Proposed Federal American Empire of the United States

In my life I have only recently begun to advocate radical political change in a medium as permanent, easily traceable and permanently accessible as a blog in my own name. It is a very small and slow process which compensates for its low probability of success mostly by being risky and unpaid.  Nonetheless,  it is a very serious little enterprise and so I am always able to find something  to work on within this advocacy and change modeling process. In this post I want to discuss how my model relates to the idea of republicanism and the history of republicanism within the United States of America. It is not an absolute rejection of republicanism.

One assertion that I have made in the past is that America was set upon the path of Rome as it went through its original republican revolution.  It is in one of the many posts that make up this model:  https://franksummers3ba.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/the-direct-imperial-government-in-the-new-american-regime-part-three/ and which ought to be read to fully understand what is being discussed. The point I am making there cannot be explained without considerable knowledge of both Roman and American history. However, one sign of the Roman quality of American Civilization is found in another post of this blog. It is the fact that we have a capital city which stands at a unique level and is not lost in our complex balance of the Union of States in these United States.

I have these nesting quotes on point: “To quote myself in a Facebook note I wrote on Western Civilization, “If Greece is ultimately our culture and Jesus is ultimately our conscience then what is missing. Neither Jesus nor Greece gave us a capital. Rome is the Capital of Western Civilization. That is actually Rome’s greatest achievement in my view. It is not insignificant. In Rome our center hold in some way none of us really understand but for reasons that fill libraries as well. Only in the Forbidden City and the Temple of Heaven in Beijing China have I found anything which approaches the feel of Rome. They are very different. Rome is more our cultural capital even now when we are hardly existing as a unity than Beijing is China’s cultural capital.” Both our revolutionary Founding Fathers and this revolution would seek to emulate much of what was best in Rome. A large part of it would be an effort to have a great and effective capital city.”

Now  the post for which I gave the link above states briefly how our Founding Fathers expected America to follow the path from royalist agrarianism to republicanism and into Empire. “One must remember that this would be a revolution that leaves the vast preponderance of resources in a slightly altered set of institutions that have evolved within a republican structure.  This is a very American approach since America’s 200 and more republican years have merged from a relatively slightly modified version of British and Arcadian-Acadian royalist regimes mixed with Iroquois Chieftainly confederated mixed government  seen through the lense of Greek Classical political science and the Roman republics emergence from the Kingdom of the City of Rome. In the tradition we now would move like Rome from Republic to Empire. However, the American enterprise has never been a purist enterprise and this is not a purist’s proposal.” 

Most of our words related to theories of government have Greek roots and are basically Greek. These include democracy, oligarchy, aristocracy, monarchy, tyranny, politics, police and others. However republic and republicanism are Latin in root and origin despite the prominence of Plato’s account of the Socratic dialog Republic. The real name of the book is Politea which more or less means Politics. However, since English has called Aristotle’s great work Politics it is easier for us to call this earlier book Republic. It is also true that “City-State Politics” might better translate Plato’s title.  The very Roman concept of republic had not been invented in Plato’s time but they did get most of its elements from Greece.  Greece had conquered colonized and formed much of the cultural environment in Italy in which Rome grew to maturity. That is true although ancient Rome was one of the less Greek parts of that world until they started conquering Greeks of the aging and crumbling Hellenic Empires that also did not exist when Plato wrote or Socrates spoke. Republic is the joining of two Latin words: res and publica and begins as a phrase res publica before being contracted into republica.   The phrase means the public thing. There is a difference between a true Hellenic or Greek King and a Norse or Teutonic King in classic times. There is even more of a difference between a true Emperor and such Northern or some far Eastern despots. Christianity which is Hebrew and Greek and Roman as Hitler rightly pointed out brought to the North of Europe the balance that Henry VIII and the Lutheran Princes began to erode. In Christian Europe of the Middle Ages the King might own a great deal but God owned a lot as well through the democratic and aristocratic structures of the Catholic Church. Thus the Public Thing survives and the realm is not merely a possession of the King.  It was against this resurgence of a state which is not really public and constitutional that the Americans fought the revolution.

The new Empire proposed here will pay due respect to the Northern and Western origins of so many of the citizen-subjects of the proposed regime. It will recognize the Protestant importance which really eroded so much of the European consensus. However, it will recognize that there is a long tie of Celts to Greece, that England and earlier Britain were so much part of this constitutional public tradition for so long. Finally it will recognize that our Founding Father’s set us on the path of Rome expecting us to be an Empire some day. They hoped for an Empire directly springing from and formed by a republican period. We have reached the point where our republic has matured and must either decay into something vile or mature into a true Empire of the type intended. Therefore I do not believe myself a traitor to American Republicanism but rather one proclaiming the time and place has come to fulfill it or lose it.

15 Final (for now) Things I Would Change About US Military Policy

Well, I could number these 36 to 50. I could but I will not. I will just number them 1 to 15 in my last post in this series and leave it to you to remember that they are the last in a set of 50.

1. I wish that for now, while we are awaiting a full-fledged MESA, the budget for Marines at Embassies would be greatly increased. I wish that the manpower and womanpower would be increased as well. While much of what I would like to see happen in MESA should be covert and not discussed in this blog I would like to see youth sports coaching of locals and US expats by Marines become standard. I would also like the first really women’s force in a combat unit ( as opposed to somehow gender neutral with women serving) developed. A unit of all female marines trained in rifle platoon skills who would specialize in local civilian women’s issues and networking around each embassy.

2. I would like to see Stratofortresses rigged to deploy a mix of drones, microblimps, and parachute delivered surface relays in advance of infantry and special ops invasions of fortified small regions.

3.   I would like to see a developing base protocol for  advanced bases so that the doctrine for any base is non-static and has the potential of becoming a hub for positive sociopolitical  activity.

4. I would like to see the development of falconry with camera transmitters for some elite horse mounted troops.

5.  I would like to see the three Armed Services Academies require a significant amount of non-ethnic foreign language as the norm for all cadets.

6. I would like to see a significant nonlethal weapons procurement program including:

i. dye, whistle and bang artillery for quasi hostile crowd control.

ii. rocket projected nets with soft weights and glue to disable potential bomb carriers.

iii. breaching weapons that can penetrate a wall without collapsing a building or killing the occupants with an explosion.

iv. barrier shells designed only to limit movement. 

7.  Integrated Line Management technology and doctrine should be developed to maintain all the data and assets including local civilians in a semi-static zone of combat.  

8. Counter-propaganda training should be much more widespread.

9. Furloughs should be extended where possible by a few days public relations work while a combat soldier is living at home if they volunteer for such service.

10.   A hydrofoil force for coastal and lake occupations should be developed.

11. Old military equipment in working condition should be sold to any country we occupy under arms as a matter of course to establish lines of supply, correct a power imbalance and also address budgetary needs without giving the country nothing in return for its money.

12. Wounded veterans should be supplied with opportunities for involvement with crisis simulation programs for training purposes.

13.  Environmental mitigation should become a modest and limited but real and official factor in defining doctrine.

14. Units of women should be prepared to guard (including training in specialized combat challenges), feed, nurse, house and evacuate foreign and expat local women and children in a (believed) near combat zone as they are brought in by male combat troops.

15. A large wire and ceramic mesh mechanical wheel should  be developed to proceed across fields and streets detecting the presence of IEDs and EFPs where they are expected.

15 More things I would change about US Military Policy…

Fifteen is half of thirty and since thirty and twenty equal fifty I thought I would go half of the remaining distance to fifty changes here.

1. I would like to see a divided career option where recruits serve a year or two in the service, go into a civilian college with a commitment to follow-up with two or three years in the Foreign Service, Peace Corps or CIA in fields of endeavor related to building civilian ties. After this the next two years would be served in a special unit for political, civic and counter-insurgency operations.

2. It would be great if the military would support a handful of special recruiters to work with the home school community and become aware of its issues. It would be great if it was great. Getting it right would be vital in this case.

3.   There should be a unit for setting up full-scale radio, television and internet communications in the local language as soon as territory is seized.

4. I wish that whenever we are fighting overseas there would be programs to help the relatively small number of Armed Services personnel who would like to stay  and establish homes and businesses. Supporting the expat communities in the modern context will be hard.

5. I wish that each branch had a set of officers who specialized in setting up purchasing for units from the local hinterland of each major base and using those purchasing “weaknesses” as traps for enemy infiltrators and ways to recruit legal paramilitary support groups.

6. I wish that remote operated micro blimps were standard company issue equipment for marine infantry and infantry equipment.

7. I wish spray on antiseptic bandages sufficient even to assist civilians were standard issue to all infantry.

8.  I wish that the military sponsored both open and invitational seminars and papers competitions on how cultural changes in this country affect military readiness.

9.  I wish the absentee ballots of services personnel would be rushed back in impressive style showing speed and efficiency.

10.   I wish parade drills and dry firing artillery was standard in every base of substantial size in near combat zones in areas where as many locals as could be made safe could view  these things.

11.  I wish our military encouraged American expats who were seeking to produce local products with local  labor to supply local US bases over the longer course of most wars.

12.  It would  be great if the US military could escape from implementing policies that are destructive to our national integrity for as long as we have to live in a situation where such policies are promoted.

13. It would be great if Port and Border security were more impressively coordinated matters.

14. It would be great if we could secure assets for those  struggling in any area we leave and develop a real policy for long-term engagement.

15.  I wish all military policing units had more preparation for dealing with complex foreign community locations.

20 Things I Would Change About Military Policy in the USA

This is one of several impossible blog posts I have posted.  I did not say difficult, I would like to fancy that in some sense or other many of my posts are difficult. This is one of the impossible ones because I would really like to see fundamental constitutional change in the country and have outlined many changes that would come to the military with such a set of changes. The net result would be for more than fifty notable policy changes and far more than 20. In fact like any idea that might succeed it might slow the collapse of the system’s most objectionable parts and so is sort of   against my dream. But my dream is pretty unlikely.

So here are 20 changes for now and there may be 50 in total over several posts that may not be consecutive. So whether this is 20 in total or 20 of 50  for now  these are some changes I would propose. The same list would never occur on any other day but many of the same things would be on most lists:

1. Create an Alternate National Service Corps under a special Liaison of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. There would be varied ranks and forms of entry including high schools, junior ROTC, juvenile courts and other methods of starting at varied points. An entrant would go to a no-weapons modified boot camp and take a course in a sort of combined military history and civics class before serving for one year in a special division of AmeriCorps.   Then the entrant would choose either a more real boot camp with infantry and skills training or a non-combatant camp suitable for even moderate conscientious objectors. Young men and women would also take a set of separate, sex, reproduction, marriage and family classes with access for their own religions to teach a section to adherents. Then these young people would serve another year, half with AmeriCorps and half with  a specialized Civilian  Services Unit on military reservations. At the end of this time all would be allowed to leave or enter any branch with advanced standing and rank.

2. I  would encourage any member of the Armed Services to take the last year of his service in the military and spend it in his or her home state’s National Guard or in a certified Indian Nation’s Guard or other similar program.

3. I would host a Small Business Administration joint Trade Fair with each branch every other year where small American firms could pitch new products and technologies to the Armed Services.

4.  I would require all but one branch to come up with a fully functional and parade ceremonial Animal regiment. The Army would have to have two such regiments. One being a full cavalry unit. Marines could for example have dog and horse military police.

5. I would have each branch adopt an artificial island project where it could explore the potential of fixed artificial large environs as force builders while functioning as part of an environmental and economic program,

6. I would have each branch explore planning a program for using its old nukes as spaceship propulsion in the future in the devices that I have described elsewhere .

7. I would have the branches each draw up a program for providing services on a paying basis above cost for licensed military clubs throughout the country.

8. I would bring back the Blackbird program with more simulator time and fewer planes and pilots to reduce cost. I would modify Blackbird doctrine and equipment to work in conjunction with unmanned assets like satellites , drones and  other assets as a focus for an arrayed group.

9. I would develop a Humanitarian Artillery unit in the Army. Because of the risk of encouraging proliferation of artillery the use of artillery to address problems like fires, avalanches, mudslides and many other problems has largely gone untapped. This unit would be under military control and capable of fighting but it would have all sorts of civic capabilities.

10. I would develop a Defense Intelligence Agency Linguistics and Culture Initiative. This would cultivate friendships with autonomous and gifted well-travelled Americans and seek to forge structures for co-operation and also military service.

11. I would set up programs to funnel, recruit form, correct and where necessary eliminate American boys with high propensities for violence before they were hardened criminals.

12. I would set up programs to help facilitate courtship marriage and a happy safe family life for men who by nature or solitary more often that not and are most comfortable undertaking great risk as stone cold killers. Such men are few in any society but are vital.

13. I would create a Liaison to the Re-enactors Community in each branch.

14. I would like to see a training program where soldiers are sent to real villages in Latin America or else where with other country’s permission to keep order and create a single infrastructure project in a short time. This would require many unrepeated real sites and projects.

15. Bonus pay should be given across the board in small amounts but with records kept for those acquiring skills in languages, arms, martial arts, first aid, survival and sanitation regardless of their job description or station.

16. A new functional dress sword made with Taser and GPS and combat tactical blades should be standard.

17.  The Marines should develop a full-fledged Marines Embassy Security Agency(MESA) such as I have described elsewhere.

18. All military contractors should receive points and benefits for hiring those with serious injuries and wounds received in the service for any job which actually is cost-effective no matter how specialized part-time or odd the structure used to create it may be.

19. There should be a program we can all GI Joe for now. The point would be to explore cost effectively the use of rarely gifted extreme outliers who wish to serve their country but are not good with large organizations. Hackers, smugglers, martial artists, inventors, people with extremely rare IQ scores and others would be considered.

20.   We should develop a doctrine and begin to plan for a future in which widely divergent carrier groups exist operating at significantly distinct cost profiles.

The Lower House of the Direct Imperial Government Legislature

Under the model of Government outlined in this blog the United States will continue to have a (reformed)Senate representing the States of the union. It will also have a (reformed) House of Representatives representing the people of the Union which would be the Federal American Empire of the United States. All of the States we all know Louisiana, Hawaii, Georgia, Alabama, California and New York as well as their more than forty sisters will remain States with their own legislatures. However, there would be a number of changes including ceding some lands and rights to a Direct Imperial Government.

I.The Seats in the Lower House (or Chamber) of the Direct Imperial Government

A. Compact Seats

1.There would be two delegates elected from the Lower Chamber of each Compact Legislature of the Thirteen Compacts of Jurisdictions making up the empire.

2.The Empress would also appoint four outstanding female delegates from throughout all of the Lower Chambers of all the Compacts. 

B.  Zone and Fiefdom Seats

 1. The lower chamber of every Compact Zone in a State would send two delegates to the DIG Legislature on years ending in 0,1,2, 6,7, & 8.

2. The lower chamber of every Compact Zone in a Territory or Possession would send two delegates in years ending in 0,1,3,4, & 9. They would send one delegate in years ending in 2 & 5. 

3.  The Advisory Council to the Seigneur in each Fiefdom would elect two delegates each three-year term to this chamber. The highest ranking Mistress certified by the Mistress of Ceremonies to a Peer Elector or(if there is none such) to an Heir to the Peer-Elector who is Seigneur of each Fiefdom who is not an aristocrat will be seated in this chamber perpetually. 

4. All other zones would elect one delegate for a three-year term and the delegate would always be seated.

C. The District of Columbia Seats

The District of Columbia would seat forty delegates according to its own constitution.

D. Crown Colonies and other Colonies

Based on a set of criteria in the DIG Supreme Charter shall seat either one, two, five or seven delegates. There would be no colonies above one seat in the beginning of the DIG. 

E. Imperial Services Seats.

Every Imperial Service shall elect two members from it Employees Association. Every Imperial Service will also have one member appointed as a delegate by the Imperial Civil Service  and one member appointed by the GRIHHA. Military and Civilian services shall be equal in this regard and members of the Nobility of any kind may not serve in these seats.

F. Guilds

Every Guild that conforms to the Supreme Charter and has a Guildhouse on DIG land will be represented in this chamber. 

1. Senior Invited Guilds will have four delegates each. These shall include and mostly consist of the following groups if they form guilds: California Vineyard Guild, Old American Sugar Guild, Louisiana Oyster Guild, Louisiana Crawfish Guild, Texas-Oklahoma Cattle Guild, Seaboard Tobacco Guild,  American Brewers Guild, New England Shipwrights Guild, Chesapeake Shipwrights Guild, Gulf of Mexico Shipwrights Guild, Louisiana and South Carolina Rice Farmers Guild, California Fruit Guild, Great Lakes States Apple Guild, Florida Citrus Guild, Idaho Potato Guild, Wisconsin Dairy Guild, Old Southern Cotton Guild, Silicon Valley Electronics and Information Products Guild, Wall Street Financial Services Guild, The Guild Named for the Johnsons that Joins American Family Manufacturers of Consumer Products , the Kentucky Distillery Guild and the Old Steel Guild.

2. Every other Guild will elect two delegates.

G.  The GRIHHA Appointed Family Seats;

The GRIHHA will appoint a whole set of seats to four-year terms by general vote of their assembly.

1. The GRIHHA will appoint ten grandmothers.

2. The GRIHHA will appoint twenty mothers.

3. The GRIHHA will appoint fifteen Family  Associations who will chose their own delegates.

4. The GRIHHA  will appoint five first wives or high wives of men with harems or licensed mistresses.

H. The Imperial Chaplain’s Seats.

The Imperial Chaplain will appoint ten Catholic, three Orthodox and three other member of religious and clerical classes of low rank to the chamber.  

Obviously, the lower Chamber will be large and therefore somewhat unwieldy.  However, it is meant to be large and there is nothing unnecessary about its size.  The Supreme Charter and the Constitution would only assign limited powers to this Legislature. However, the work it would do would be essential and vital to the whole regime.

A Return to the Modeling of a Royalist Federal Imperial American Model

I am not printing out the majority of these posts anywhere and having some of them on flash drive does not and never would answer all questions related to organization of material. There are bound to be some contradictions and problems of continuity.  These would be problems I would take more seriously if this were an established government issuing official documents. However, writing as the ultimate outsider I am not troubled by this. There are so many things to work out before any of this can be worked out in fact there are a million things to do besides achieving perfect editorial cohesion.  I am returining to this model and am writing about a little bit of in outlining one more component. The model is based on a royalist concept that balances monarchic, aristocratic and democratic elements in an effective mixed and federal system. This is the group of Aristocrats just below the Peer-Electors at the top of the proposed Upper Nobility.

In previous blog posts I have discussed Forty Peer-Electors who would play a vital role in the establishment of the Empire and Emperor in the transformed United States. I have also posted a requirement for a High Council of Nobles in the Direct Imperial Government.  The large majority of the Forty Peer-Electors proposed would be hereditary familial peers.  There would also be a Group of ten members of the Upper Nobility of the proposed Empire who would fill extinct places in the fixed allotment of Peer-Electors. These would be the Ten:

1. The Count Rockefeller of New Jersey’ s New Holland

2. The Count Ford of Detroit

3. The Count Walton of Little Rock

4. The Count Dupont of  Kentucky and Delaware Removes

5. Count___________ and of Hendrickson of the Lakes,  Chief of the Scandinavians of Wisconsin and Minnesota  

6. Le Compte Boudreaux Haute President de les Haute Chefs de les Acadiens

7. Le Compte Hebert President de les Haute Chefs de Les Acadiens

8. Le Compte Melancon President de les Haute Chefs de Les  Acadiens

9. Herzog der Fleussebanken, Chef des Comunites de La Cote des Allemans

10. Grand Viscount Chow Hawaii’s Chinese communities, Head of the Long Exiled Han Royal House

Today and tomorrow…

Well, it looks like tropical storm  Bonnie may have pushed some oil ashore before breaking up and that is more pronounced because all fragile barriers had to be removed because of what Bonnie would have don to the barriers (especially boom lines) if they had been hit by a real tropical storm.  However, it is also significant that it caused the floating worksite over Macondo to be shut down for several days. Nonetheless it is possible for us to say that the impact of this storm has been very minimal.

This weekend I have been attending the Catholic Charismatic Conference in Lafayette, Louisiana. That is a hard experience to relate to if one is not involved in the renewal movement. I have attending many of these Lafayette conferences over the past thirty odd years. Always there have been elements of both blessing and concern. However, while I fancy that I remember better days, the conference is better tha many of those in the recent past in several memorable ways. I have also run into a number of old acquaintances I seldom or never see outside of these annual conferences or similar events. For  me that means mostly these conferences for a variety of reasons.

The Charismatic renewal fostered ministries around the world, created dialog among varied Christians, produced huge amounts of music, led to countless marriages, saved some collapsing institutions of various kinds and did manifest signs of God’s gracious spirit. Tomorrow, I will return to writing about some odd speculative political agenda for a bit — God Willing. But whatever I am and think about people relating to one another has been formed in some way by the years of varied levels of involvement in the Charismatic Renewal.  I may find time to blog more about that on some future occasion.